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so that's what I mean when I say more

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broadly does the truth matter

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are we compelled to constantly be

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looking for that evidence base truth

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beyond our personal truth you know

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because contrasting that with oh my this

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is my experience thing saying well you

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know here's what the data tells us you

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get a sense of what I'm saying yeah

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and that's I think that's the the

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important thing to focus on is its it's

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not really about the truth it's about

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how do we move people to think in a way

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that enables them to move towards the

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truth and I think there's a distinction

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there in are we focus on the endgame are

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we focused on the journey of how do we

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get them there and it's really funny

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because the first time I listened to

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skeptic Oh was a it was a Joelle episode

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and I was like I can't listen to this

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you know I'm not Christian but I was

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like what is this guy talking about and

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and it was you know and I turned it off

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and it took me a while to come back to

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it and when I did I started it episode

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one and I got to go on The Skeptical

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journey so that when I listen to an

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episode now like you know I'd haven't

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listened the most recent well with with

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Christopher Knowles but when I listen to

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that I'm not gonna be like this guy what

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is he talking about because I've been on

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the journey there's been a

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transformation for me to see and go

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through the process of all of those

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moments of like how can this be how can

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this be

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that I could get to where I am now and

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I'm probably still well on my way in

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that journey and and that's what happens

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when I tell people about skeptical all

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the time but I always tell them with

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this huge caveat you cannot start the

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latest episodes you've got to go back to

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the beginning because you won't if you

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listen to that episode the recent ones

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you're not gonna be able to handle it

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you're just not there you need to go on

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that journey so that you can open

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yourself up to that possibility of what

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it means to be skeptical what it means

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to to change your perspective what it

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means to feel the discomfort and survive

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it and go through the discomfort and of

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having those nights where you can't

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sleep because you're going what what is

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reality what what does it mean to be a

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member of this this country what does

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that even mean anymore and these

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questions that come up through that

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process each step gets you a little bit

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closer

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the possibility of being in that state

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of being okay in the middle you know

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being okay in the journey without a

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destination without knowing what the

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answer is and moving towards it I think

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to me at least the more important thing

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is not the truth even though I think you

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and I personally both enjoy the truth

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that to me is a fun journey but but in

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terms of the the larger question it's

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not about the truth it's about how to

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how do we move people towards that how

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do we help them feel comfortable